STAND meeting chat 11 February 2021
19:20:21 From spharoah to Everyone : The Draft appears to promote housing need at the expense of almost everything else. The National Planning Policy Framework tells us that strategic policies must be informed by a local housing need assessment “unless exceptional circumstances justify an alternative approach” – can Chris share his views on what valid exceptional circumstances may be.
19:20:36 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : hi do we have contact details for absent councillor Walsh
19:22:15 From Susie Hosford to Everyone : Cllr Walsh’s contact details will be on the Dorset Council Website.
19:25:34 From Gerald Duke to Everyone : Cllr.email@example.com 07973228620 or 01747 840578 19:27:05 From molly rennie to Everyone : Cllrdavid.firstname.lastname@example.org
19:25:52 From Bernadette Searle to Everyone : Mike Joslin is dead right – genuine need not 2nd homes
19:27:20 From Elise to Everyone : Surely though we need to look at the lack of employment available for these occupants of the houses. There seems to be a lack of new employment available for the younger generation. This would surely be reflected in those able to afford this new housing.
19:28:39 From Perwina Whitmore to Everyone : Surely employment opportunities will be increasing as working from home becomes established as the new normal
19:29:43 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : Home working is an ideal way of encouraging life back into the villages
19:30:26 From Andrew Woodcock to Everyone : Why are we not considering redeveloping the real estate in the town centres, i.e. empty shops which will never re-open and could be re-developed?
19:30:28 From Elise to Everyone : What industry is this though and will the younger generation be trained and available to work within this home employed
19:30:58 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : Home working is a quantum leap change in society which has arisen since the plan was devised
19:31:14 From Catherine to Everyone : What about housing for low paid people who can’t work from home? Nurses, bus drivers, shop workers, farmworkers, etc.
19:31:27 From Perilla Kinchin to Everyone : I agree with Mike that ‘demand’ from retirees and second home owners and holiday lets is insatiable. The need is for affordable housing for the local working population. How do we tackle the second home problem which hollows out villages.
19:31:33 From Elise to Everyone : Also the wages within this area show a massive gap between the cost of houses and the rent charged.
19:31:40 From Perwina Whitmore to Everyone : Agree Paul hopefully we will become a more attractive place for young people to want to stay local. And if there is a small amount of development across the area that would work well
19:32:09 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : fire regulations for shops and flats are difficult to deal with having run several shop premises
19:32:58 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : There are 8 empty or only occasionally used houses in my immediate neighbourhood.
19:33:10 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : average salary in the area is 25k – so for a single person, an affordable home would cost between 80-120k
19:33:24 From Andrew Woodcock to Everyone : Thank you Paul, but that is something that will need to be addressed in any case.
19:33:52 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : Re Anrew Woodcock’s comment, we should absolutely be redeveloping the town ‘centre’ where there are empty shops and storage above: it is scandalous that these are empty and it is only going to get ‘worse’ with the changes in the high street that are on the cards…
19:34:11 From Christopher Slade to Everyone : Dorset has over 250 parishes. If each parish averaged a few new houses/barn conversions a year we should meet the target without destroying the environment.
19:34:16 From Elise to Everyone : But this 25k is not for the younger generation and tell me what area and what industry is this 25k as I have never seen a job paying that much
19:34:55 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : The focus should be on rethinking the high street…with housing and independent businesses…
19:35:21 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : that’s a mean average – but you’re right Elise – realistically much lower
19:35:56 From Mike Joslin to Everyone : One important factor is that the false demand for houses has pushed rents so high that taxpayers now pay renters some £22 billion a year by way of Housing benefit
19:35:59 From Ellie to Everyone : There are approximately 600 empty homes in Dorset and some 2,600 second homes in West Dorset according to www.openingdoorsdorset.co.uk
19:36:10 From Elise to Everyone : Thanks Ellie I just needed it confirmed but even with the ‘average’ I doubt the cost of the houses would be affordable to wages available.
19:36:12 From Perwina Whitmore to Everyone : Also Poundbury is not yet complete, Brewery Square is not yet compete, the high street has housing potential not sure what has happened to the prison site
19:36:19 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : the town centre area has been awaiting development for almost 40 years. it was meant to be a shopping mall. that is dead in the water now because of ecommerce, this could be developed for residential/tourism/parking
19:37:04 From Guy Dickinson to Everyone : Totally agree on the second homes issue. Not sustainable and almost immoral!
19:37:18 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : And agree about Poundbury…. The number of new homes which include the provision of social housing is massive…
19:38:25 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : Elise – I 100% agree – local people have little hope of getting on property ladder
19:38:58 From Kim Slowe to Everyone : Growth of the villages is the surest way of revitalising therm and of protecting village facilities. A much better option than growth of Dorchester.
19:40:56 From Perwina Whitmore to Everyone : Growth of the villages is essential to keep them viable. There’s no advantage in allowing the villages to die
19:41:02 From Elise to Everyone : OK I live in a village but have no infrastructure. No shop and no public transport. So we do need to re look at better transport links if we are to develop villages more
19:41:18 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : the villages have been dormitory suburbs for almost 50 years now. With climate change building their infrastructure would be a great idea.
19:41:45 From Sol to Everyone : Do the council have money
19:42:09 From Guy Dickinson to Everyone : They say they can’t afford council houses!
19:42:25 From molly rennie to Everyone : There are planning permissions given for 1158 with in Dorchester itself not build yet but planned to be built e.g. Poundbury brewery square prison 350 waiting for permissions
19:42:31 From Perwina Whitmore to Everyone : Improved public transport across Dorset is essential if we are to address the climate emergency
19:43:04 From Sol to Everyone : The council do not have any money from the Government, relying on council tax and car parking charges
19:44:44 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : DC have also suggested that north Dorch would reduce traffic – but it’s too far away for many people to walk and households are highly likely to have people working in different towns.
19:44:47 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : And in all of this, climate catastrophe should be at the top of the agenda in decision making. It is completely scandalous that this is not being discussed properly and effectively at the level of local decision-making…
19:45:18 From Gerald Duke to Everyone : The money for social housing is with the housing associations. One local association has £2billion available for building 10000 houses over the next 10 years
19:46:00 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : I think we need to get out on the streets (as soon as we can!) and demonstrate…
19:46:14 From Andrew Woodcock to Everyone : Climate Emergency? I’ve read the plan, what emergency?
19:46:25 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : why are magna not allowed to build?
19:46:52 From Elise to Everyone : OK Chris Loder is talking about green housing. But we still need to look at employment. Low wages means less money within the community. Or are we just relying on the second home owners and older generation for their money within the community
19:46:54 From Perwina Whitmore to Everyone : It’s obvious that North Dorchester wouldn’t reduce traffic – it’s far too far for most people to walk from there into the town and back to do their shopping. They will definitely drive
19:48:08 From Kim Slowe to Everyone : Whether we like not or not the Council are simply reacting to the housing numbers that are being imposed on them by Central Government. Increasing the size of Dorchester is an easy option for them to achieve their rolling 5 year land supply. It seems unlikely that we will be able to override the plan as proposed. If that is indeed the case we should, in parallel to objecting to the allocation, also be developing a plan that helps to ensure that should the allocation go ahead the local community will have a meaningful part to play in the quality of what is built and the type of housing.
19:48:17 From Jane Ashdown to Everyone : I put a question to the Council about the Glover proposal for a Dorset National Park and the response is posted in the Q & A section on the Council web site.
19:48:38 From molly rennie to Everyone : Magna are allowed to build Paul but they have not had any large development applications recently maybe not got the land such as persimmon have bought up
19:48:53 From Lynne Hubbard’s iPhone to Everyone : The council representative not even here
19:51:15 From Elise to Everyone : Can I ask what are we hoping to achieve by this meeting? Will we be taking the outcome of this meeting to the Council. Are the Council not even worrying about this meeting? It seems so by not sending a representative. Are we just talking to ourselves?
19:52:00 From Sam.McKeown to Everyone : well no, there’s two reporters from the Dorset Echo in this meeting – it’s well worth doing
19:52:24 From Elise to Everyone : Thank you Sam McKeown
19:52:30 From Gerald Duke to Everyone : I wonder if Kim Slowe has a view on viability and providing social housing
19:53:26 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : Beat me to it Sam! we’re here to help bring these concerns to light
19:53:35 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : I am using this meeting to help word my letter to the planning committee!
19:53:35 From Elise to Everyone : Houses in Villages are not enough to bring villages back to life. Infrastructure needs to be better
19:54:48 From Elise to Everyone : Only if they already have a job. My teenagers looking for work are not already working from home.
19:56:13 From Stephen Brissenden to Everyone : economics of biodiversity conservation is ever more important as is clearly explained in the Government Prof’ Dasgupta review. It should be the number one priority over all planning policy before it is too late.
19:57:31 From spharoah to Everyone : If sustainability really is so important to Dorset – why is their Sustainability Appraisal so woefully inadequate?
19:59:34 From Elise to Everyone : The local plan that was rolled out to local parish councils a few years ago asked to look at areas where new buildings could happen. There was a massive backlash about change within these villages. I cant see how people within the Villages would want new buildings changing “their village”
19:59:41 From Kim Slowe to Everyone : In response to Gerald, the challenge for North Dorchester will be the cost of the infrastructure. If this is met from central government funding then there is no reason why the development can’t deliver policy compliant affordable housing. Without central government infrastructure funding I am in no doubt that Persimmon/Ilchester Estates will argue that affordable percentages have to be reduced. I would also add that the make up of the consortium is a real area of concern. It is very hard to see how, with these players, a quality development will be delivered. I agree with Chris that the Persimmon scheme in Sherborne is a disgrace and a warning sign.
20:03:04 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : Mark is right. This is absolutely in the centre of Far From the Madding Crowd country
20:04:51 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : housing benefit does not cover the full cost of rent – even for a cheap bedsit
20:04:55 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : Mark Chutter speaks from the heart – with far reaching agreements from people worldwide and a little closer in Devon where so many new developments have already eaten uo so much of our beautiful areas for housing which has no more helped young people than COVID19 is! Well said Mark…..
20:05:32 From Bernadette Searle to Everyone : I am a key worker at DCH earning max £16.000 a year before tax
20:05:47 From spharoah to Everyone : On sustainability – DOR13 would effectively be permission in principle, but it establishes principles based on guesswork, generalisations, maybe’s, and hope. There is no evidence at all that the 2020 Emergency Strategy has had any influenced upon the Draft Local Plan.
20:06:39 From Elise to Everyone : My whole point is the wages in this area need to earn more. The average wage here for young people is bwtween £12 and £18K Please get a real understanding of what actual people earn in this County
20:07:13 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : We have an affordability crisis not a housing crisis
20:07:38 From Perwina Whitmore to Everyone : Isn’t there a benefit in pausing this whole thing so everyone can fully assess the major shifts in lifestyle that Covid will inevitably bring and then reset
20:07:40 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : what Kate said!
20:07:43 From Lynne Hubbard’s iPhone to Everyone : This is right- councils must take the his role and they will get the rent to build more decent house. Europe has a much bigger state sector housing
20:07:45 From Bernadette Searle to Everyone : Kate – you are right
20:08:27 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : Totally agree with Mark. Heritage and the legacy of Thomas Hardy, the literary landscape etc are of inestimable value, not just historically but actually as part of the economic viability of Dorchester and its environs….
20:09:54 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : Turning Dorchester into Basingstoke would deeply damage the Dorset ‘brand’ – which is small scale, rural, sustainable, high quality
20:10:22 From Elise to Everyone : High Quality in what way Kate?
20:10:27 From Sol to Everyone : Bronte Sister, Yorkshire..
20:10:27 From Kim Slowe to Everyone : We seem to be skirting around the issue of how to STOP this development if at all possible. Do we need to raise the funds to instruct a hard hitting Barrister to prepare a document that fights the proposal on planning grounds that can actually have an impact on the process.
20:11:20 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : Donate via www.stand-dorchester.net !
20:11:36 From Sol to Everyone : Totally agree with you, Kim
20:12:04 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : Kim – this is what campaigners did in Weymouth to try and stop betterment properties developing green land. unfortunately it went to the high court and the developer won, think council had to pay costs. but I still think this is a good idea for STAND
20:12:40 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : Why do we want to destroy Dorchester for young people, the tourism and Hardy,Barnes interest will keep sustainable work going for young people who Im sure will be keen to live in the town ………… not show people where this all happened but now it’s just a mass of houses!?!
20:13:07 From Perwina Whitmore to Everyone : agree we could do with professional help to tackle this
20:13:40 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : Has the destruction of wildlife habitat been considered yet?
20:13:57 From Jane Ashdown to Everyone : Bioabundance in South Oxfordshire is a group that is launching a law suit against the government. STAND has info on their web site. Personally I think we will need to mount a legal defense type fund.
20:14:54 From spharoah to Everyone : Fiona is right – the Council’s own Cultural Landscape and Heritage Impact Assessment warns us DOR13 would result in “harmful interaction” with the setting of important heritage assets and archaeological remains (including many of national significance). But … the Assessment superciliously concludes these crucial landscape associations with Hardy to be “fiction”.
20:14:56 From Elise to Everyone : What is main reasons for not wanting this development. For me it’s what’s the point when there is no future plan for further industries and employment for the younger generation. All that this does is build houses. I want to look at who will be living there and how they will afford to live there
20:16:48 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : absolutely
20:17:05 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : It would also be good to get those who are at the centre of the local heritage industry on board to add support…Dorset County Museum, Thomas Hardy Society…
20:17:11 From Elise to Everyone : Then the arguments of how this is not good for environment and history
20:18:23 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : The Thomas Hardy Society have written and opposed this development – Tony Fincham Chairman of Society
20:21:20 From Lynne Hubbard’s iPhone to Everyone : As soon as possible we need a street protest. it can be socially distanced
20:21:21 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : Well done Rodney lets not make North Dorchester site be the next disaster – lets get it turned round!
20:22:26 From spharoah to Everyone : Does anyone know if there is access to the previously adopted local plan inspectors report online and where I might find it?
20:22:27 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : We need a plan of action…Yes, protest as we CANNOT allow this to go ahead….
20:23:00 From Sarah Pattison to Kate Hebditch(Direct Message) : I feel that is the debate we need to have – What is Dorchester for. A real vision for the town rather than the bland generic vision in the plan. I do not think that the Basingstoke model is what people will opt for.
20:23:13 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : full respect to Mr Loder
20:23:19 From Elise to Everyone : Oh watch out Im pretty sure the Government don’t want any large scale protests.
20:23:32 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : Hear, hear, Sarah
20:25:07 From Bernadette Searle to Everyone : Well said, Molly Rennie
20:25:14 From Elise to Everyone : People seem to be really apathetic towards protesting and have no idea how to go about protesting further.
20:26:03 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : So, why can’t we get together with all the expertise here and offer an alternative as per what Mollie says…but we also need to PROTEST.
20:26:34 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : But that was years ago, Molly. Surely can start again?
20:26:39 From Sol to Everyone : We have to participate the consultation however our fights are going to continue from today till we win the case. Lets come together by joining STAND actively
20:26:57 From Elise to Everyone : Surely this meeting should be the start of this Rachel. How should we do this any ideas?
20:27:39 From Sol to Everyone : joining STAND and being active
20:27:46 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : I’d also encourage people to write in to the Echo’s letter’s page www.dorsetecho.co.uk/letters/submitaletter/
20:29:48 From Rachel Worth to Everyone : Apologies but I need to leave the meeting…Please can we get together again like this very soon with an actual action plan for us all to work together?
20:29:50 From Elise to Everyone : Anyone got a link to STAND?
20:30:05 From Sarah Pattison to Everyone : Much of the work from 2008 and earlier that comes out in the plan is not available on the DC website and would need access to South Walks House to examine hard copy. This is a good reason why the consultation should not be taking place at this point in time.
20:30:22 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : https://stand-dorchester.net/
20:30:47 From Elise to Everyone : There is a surprise Chris
20:30:47 From Stephen Brissenden to Everyone : I do hope this year’s UN climate meeting goes well to make sure the natural world stays right at the top of the global agenda – but here in Dorset I fear it is not going to happen.
20:31:19 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : We are hoping to have an online protest rally
20:31:48 From Jane Ashdown to Everyone : The Halcrow Report is linked in the document on the Dorchester Civic Society web site so it is available electronically
20:32:07 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : please keep Sam and I posted on that rally Kate
20:32:56 From Elise to Everyone : The Piddle Valley is where I live the Echo obviously covers this area
20:33:13 From Gerald Duke to Everyone : Chris. How do we get David Walsh out of his bunker?
20:33:20 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : Thank you Chris – we’re keen to work with you on this too
20:33:21 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : No one has mentioned flooding – the developement would cover a huge chalk soak for our local rainfall which would all run off into the water meadows and potentially into Dorchester itself making any possible walkways/paths aces to the water medows redundant at many times of the year
20:33:45 From Lynne Hubbard’s iPhone to Everyone : Many people in Dorchester still don’t know about it.
20:33:59 From Sol to Everyone : not enough time to do what you are suggesting, Chris
20:34:16 From Sarah Pattison to Everyone : I agree Stephen but DC does not mention sustainability in its climate change strategy. Its about a economic growth poll growth based on green technology. The only other authority I am aware of that failed in this project was N. Lincolnshire.
20:35:53 From molly rennie to Everyone : Chris is so right Dorset Councillors thought out the whole council area get ‘fed ‘ this news feed everyday and is sent them every morning. They will pick it up even if do not get a paper copy we All read this as a way of ‘keeping up’
20:36:05 From Sol to Everyone : Hydrogeology of the North Dorchester Downs is necessary.. surface water flooding major issue.. our drinking water coming from this downs.. what about sewarage and how the River From il be polluted.. etc etc
20:36:12 From molly rennie to Everyone : The Echo is a great way forward
20:36:24 From Sarah Pattison to Everyone : Agree Chris. There is no data on connectivity between settlements. Thanks Chris
20:38:11 From Elise to Everyone : Who has chosen this area??????
20:39:15 From Sol to Everyone : the Previous LA, West Dorset, Weymouth and Portland Council in 2018 in their local plan review preffered Options
20:39:16 From spharoah to Everyone : Alistair is spot on about masterplanning. The Draft Plan offers a dull destructive vision for Dorchester.
20:39:17 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : Elise – consortium of landowners and Persimmon homes put it forward
20:39:19 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : our part of dorset has the highest allocation of all the 4 areas, by a long way
20:40:20 From Elise to Everyone : Democracy working there Kate Hebditch obviously
20:40:53 From Alan Rowley to Everyone : Look at Dorchester Civic Society’s FaceBook site for a summary of criticisms of the draft local plan
20:41:06 From Kim Slowe to Everyone : Very good points Mr Chisholm! There is a massive brownfield site at Winfrith for example…..
20:41:51 From Gerald Duke to Everyone : Winfrith with ideal travel conections
20:41:52 From Sarah Pattison to Everyone : The 4 areas are an example in point. There is no data why they are as they are. The reason is that they are based on the Regional Spatial Strategy in 2008. It is simply out of date and it is impossible to access why the boundaries were set as they were on 2008 because none of it is on the DC website.
20:42:36 From Sol to Everyone : they have to make these documents as evidence base in order to examined by residents
20:42:42 From Sarah Pattison to Everyone : Yes Linda – good point
20:42:54 From Elise to Everyone : I may be completely ignorant here. But if this isnt opposed will it just go ahead. If so then how do we oppose it in basic language so I can share this with friends
20:43:25 From Kim Slowe to Everyone : Well said Linda. Examination of the viability of the scheme might well be a route to stopping this development.
20:45:09 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : Keep in touch via www.stand-Dorchester.net
20:46:34 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : I’ll rewriting big time – Thank you Ellie
20:46:45 From Elise to Everyone : Totally agree Mike Joslin
20:47:10 From Sarah Pattison to Everyone : Its important that people raise their voices over the failings of the consultation. If not an inspector will most likely say at examination that we had our chance to raise issues earlier in the process.
20:47:14 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/letters/submitaletter/
20:48:29 From Sol to Everyone : all of us should send letter to Dorset Echo as evidence that residents exprresed their virews but the council did ignore
20:48:31 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : Who can we raise this with in Westminster?
20:48:34 From Bernadette Searle to Everyone : Susie Hosford. How can I get a recording of this and all the comments? My email address is email@example.com
20:48:37 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : feel there ought to be a dedicated STAND facebook group and twitter account
20:49:22 From Kate Hebditch to Everyone : I will save the chat. if anyone wants me to edit out what they said, let me know
20:49:36 From Gerald Duke to Everyone : I am waiting for an invitation from Keep 106.
20:49:45 From Anita Casu to Everyone : Also Dorchester Civic Society Facebook Group 20:50:03 From Anita Casu to Everyone : we have put up bones of our opposition on there
20:50:19 From Sol to Everyone : Dorcester views and news
20:50:54 From Paul Wallis to Everyone : Thanks Kate for getting the meeting together – shame C’ellor Walsh did not face up to it. Joy
20:51:26 From Elise to Everyone : firstname.lastname@example.org
20:51:55 From Sol to Everyone : thanks, Kate
20:52:03 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : my email: email@example.com for chat please thanks
20:52:14 From Sarah Pattison to Everyone : Sarahjanepattison@btinternet.com
20:52:19 From Stephen Brissenden to Everyone : I can see to the north of Dorchester, the water meadows and Hardy Country. Over the years, I have enjoyed the changing scene of this countryside and pastureland. However, the weather pattern is wetter. I have witnessed dramatic change, the meadows now flood regularly. So much so that I look over large lakes of flooded fields, and the water remains high for much longer, even the Frome allotments now flood, and people lose their vegetables. The water table seems higher and the river embankments run close to breaching.
20:52:19 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : firstname.lastname@example.org
20:52:24 From Kim Slowe to Everyone : email@example.com
20:52:55 From Jane Ashdown to Everyone : Thank you to Susie for being a great Chair
20:53:05 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : Thank you so much Susie, so glad to be included so professional – keep meetings going we at least must keep talking
20:53:14 From Elise to Everyone : Good idea
20:53:16 From Ellie Maslin to Everyone : thank you Susie
20:53:36 From Catherine to Everyone : Sign up for Stand emails
20:53:48 From Elise to Everyone : We need younger people too
20:54:25 From Lynne Hubbard’s iPhone to Everyone : thanks everyone
20:54:45 From Alexandra Zoppellini to Everyone : joined in by telephone lots more people could accesss this way